{"id":14536,"date":"2021-09-21T13:46:13","date_gmt":"2021-09-21T11:46:13","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/conferences.isaqb.org\/software-architecture-gathering\/?p=14536"},"modified":"2025-04-25T15:06:05","modified_gmt":"2025-04-25T13:06:05","slug":"blog-bert-jan-schrijver","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/conferences.isaqb.org\/software-architecture-gathering\/blog-bert-jan-schrijver\/","title":{"rendered":"Software Architecture in a DevOps World \u2013 An Interview with Bert Jan Schrijver"},"content":{"rendered":"\t\t<div data-elementor-type=\"wp-post\" data-elementor-id=\"14536\" class=\"elementor elementor-14536\" data-elementor-post-type=\"post\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-33804b5 e-flex e-con-boxed e-con e-parent\" data-id=\"33804b5\" data-element_type=\"container\" data-settings=\"{&quot;background_background&quot;:&quot;classic&quot;}\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"e-con-inner\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-a226bd5 elementor-widget elementor-widget-global elementor-global-22086 elementor-widget-isaqb_widget_pagetitle\" data-id=\"a226bd5\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"isaqb_widget_pagetitle.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<section class=\"isaqb-pagetitle\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"ipt-content\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<h2 class=\"title\">Blog<\/h2>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<p class=\"subtitle\">iSAQB Software Architecture Gathering<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<section class=\"elementor-section elementor-top-section elementor-element elementor-element-89162e4 elementor-section-boxed elementor-section-height-default elementor-section-height-default\" data-id=\"89162e4\" data-element_type=\"section\" data-settings=\"{&quot;background_background&quot;:&quot;classic&quot;}\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-container elementor-column-gap-default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-50 elementor-top-column elementor-element elementor-element-f6835a4\" data-id=\"f6835a4\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-0d19bce elementor-widget elementor-widget-image\" data-id=\"0d19bce\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"image.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/conferences.isaqb.org\/software-architecture-gathering\/bert-jan-schrijver\/\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<img decoding=\"async\" width=\"200\" height=\"200\" src=\"https:\/\/conferences.isaqb.org\/software-architecture-gathering\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/06\/Bert_Jan_Schrijver.jpg\" class=\"attachment-large size-large wp-image-6690\" alt=\"Bert Jan Schrijver\" srcset=\"https:\/\/conferences.isaqb.org\/software-architecture-gathering\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/06\/Bert_Jan_Schrijver.jpg 200w, https:\/\/conferences.isaqb.org\/software-architecture-gathering\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/06\/Bert_Jan_Schrijver-150x150.jpg 150w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 200px) 100vw, 200px\" \/>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-a4012cb elementor-widget elementor-widget-heading\" data-id=\"a4012cb\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"heading.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<h6 class=\"elementor-heading-title elementor-size-default\"><a href=\"https:\/\/conferences.isaqb.org\/software-architecture-gathering\/bert-jan-schrijver\/\">Bert Jan Schrijver<\/a><\/h6>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-923d5e7 elementor-widget elementor-widget-heading\" data-id=\"923d5e7\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"heading.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<h6 class=\"elementor-heading-title elementor-size-default\"><a href=\"https:\/\/conferences.isaqb.org\/software-architecture-gathering\/bert-jan-schrijver\/\"><span style=\"color: rgb(105, 105, 105); font-family: &quot;Nunito Sans&quot;, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; text-align: center; white-space: normal;\">CTO at OpenValue<\/span><\/a><\/h6>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-fd85939 elementor-widget elementor-widget-heading\" data-id=\"fd85939\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"heading.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<h6 class=\"elementor-heading-title elementor-size-default\"><a href=\"https:\/\/conferences.isaqb.org\/software-architecture-gathering\/matt-mclarty\/\">Published On<\/a><\/h6>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-6590e81 elementor-widget elementor-widget-heading\" data-id=\"6590e81\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"heading.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<h6 class=\"elementor-heading-title elementor-size-default\"><a href=\"https:\/\/conferences.isaqb.org\/software-architecture-gathering\/bert-jan-schrijver\/\">September 21, 2021<\/a><\/h6>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-50 elementor-top-column elementor-element elementor-element-f3da26d\" data-id=\"f3da26d\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-f1d974c elementor-widget elementor-widget-heading\" data-id=\"f1d974c\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"heading.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<h2 class=\"elementor-heading-title elementor-size-default\">Software Architecture in a DevOps World \u2013 An Interview with Bert Jan Schrijver<\/h2>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-1adf116 elementor-widget elementor-widget-text-editor\" data-id=\"1adf116\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"text-editor.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/conferences.isaqb.org\/software-architecture-gathering\/thursday#Thursday_Bert_Jan_Schrijver\" style=\"color: #696969;\"><u>Your talk<\/u><\/a> focuses on software architecture in a DevOps world. What are the challenges you see?<\/strong><br><br>\n<p style=\"font-weight: 400;\">For a DevOps team, one of the main goals is to provide continuous delivery of value for end users. As a result, you\u2019re working as a team in small increments and try to deliver new features to production as soon and often as possible, and get as much feedback as you can along the way. When a team is moving at such a fast pace, continuously adding new features and refining existing ones, it can be difficult for a software architect to keep up.<\/p>\n<p style=\"margin-top:40px;\"><strong>How can we tackle those challenges from your experience?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"font-weight: 400;\">For software architecture to keep up in a DevOps world, it needs to be able to move at the same pace and follow the same principles. Otherwise, the DevOps team gets slowed down waiting for architecture work to finish. This means that either the architecture work needs to be done before the team starts building a feature, or that the architecture evolves during the development process.<\/p>\n<p style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I prefer a combination of both models, because it allows to have enough time to calmly think about a problem beforehand, while also keeping room to keep improving the architecture while you gain new insights. This typically does mean that the software architecture work either needs to be done by the DevOps team itself, or that a software architect needs to work closely together with the DevOps team.<\/p>\n<p style=\"font-weight: 400;\">As long as the development work isn\u2019t blocked by the architecture work, either way can work.<\/p>\n\n<p style=\"margin-top:40px;\"><strong>Besides these DevOps-specific challenges: What are the biggest challenges of architectural work from your experience?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n<p style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I always strive to give teams as much independence as possible. Because if there\u2019s one thing that slows a team down, it\u2019s being dependent on other people outside the team. A challenge here in bigger organizations is to find a balance between having multiple teams work independently of each other and not having every team reinvent the wheel. This specifically can be a challenge when deciding whether to solve a problem locally in a specific way, or organization-wide in a generic way. Solving problems with generic solutions can save time in the long run, but it does create dependencies between teams which can also cost time. The hardest thing here is that the long-term gains of solving a problem in a generic way are typically hard to predict up front, while the short term higher cost of designing and developing generic solutions usually is pretty clear. This makes it difficult to compare pros and cons of generic vs specific solutions.<\/p>\n<p style=\"margin-top:40px;\"><strong>Up to this point we talked about challenges. Let us talk about the joyful sides of our work for a change. What do you like most about your work?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I love being able to create something from nothing; especially the creative process around thinking about the problem domain, the requirements, the constraints and possible solutions. I love helping teams make decisions by sharing my experiences as developer and architect.<\/p>\n<strong>Staying on the joyful side: If you would have three wishes for the IT domain to make it even better \u2014 what would they be?<\/strong><\/p>\n<ol>\n \t<li>Empowerment &amp; ownership: I believe that lots of software teams underperform because they don\u2019t have the freedom to make choices (about technology, for example) to the best of their ability. Give a team freedom and they will take responsibility.<\/li>\n \t<li>Diversity: IT is a complex creative domain, so having people from lots of different backgrounds with different angles really helps when solving problems.<\/li>\n \t<li>And finally.. more fun! Take time to hang out as a team without talking about work. Take time to do research and hack on new technology. Take time to relax. The best performing teams are teams that know how to have fun together \ud83d\ude09<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p style=\"margin-top:40px;\"><strong>A final question, regarding the Software Architecture Gathering: Which other talks of the conference are you curious about?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Probably all of them\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0It\u2019s great to be part of such an amazing speaker lineup. I\u2019m definitely going to enjoy all the keynotes, and I\u2019m looking forward to the talks by <a href=\"https:\/\/conferences.isaqb.org\/software-architecture-gathering\/adam-bien\/\" style=\"color: #696969;\"><u>Adam Bien<\/u><\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/conferences.isaqb.org\/software-architecture-gathering\/eberhard-wolff\/\"style=\"color: #696969;\" ><u>Eberhard Wolff<\/u><\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/conferences.isaqb.org\/software-architecture-gathering\/felienne-hermans\/\" style=\"color: #696969;\"><u>Felienne Hermans<\/u><\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/conferences.isaqb.org\/software-architecture-gathering\/neal-ford\/\" style=\"color: #696969;\"><u>Neal Ford<\/u><\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/conferences.isaqb.org\/software-architecture-gathering\/simon-brown\/\" style=\"color: #696969;\"><u>Simon Brown<\/u><\/a> as well.<\/p>\n<p style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t<section class=\"elementor-section elementor-top-section elementor-element elementor-element-92505fd elementor-section-boxed elementor-section-height-default elementor-section-height-default\" data-id=\"92505fd\" data-element_type=\"section\" data-settings=\"{&quot;background_background&quot;:&quot;classic&quot;}\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-container elementor-column-gap-default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-50 elementor-top-column elementor-element elementor-element-94dbdf1\" data-id=\"94dbdf1\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-50 elementor-top-column elementor-element elementor-element-6cd8f0d\" data-id=\"6cd8f0d\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-cd5c986 elementor-widget elementor-widget-heading\" data-id=\"cd5c986\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"heading.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-heading-title elementor-size-default\">Sessions by Bert Jan Schrijver<\/div>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-9e9c3f8 elementor-widget elementor-widget-heading\" data-id=\"9e9c3f8\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"heading.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<h3 class=\"elementor-heading-title elementor-size-default\"><a href=\"https:\/\/conferences.isaqb.org\/software-architecture-gathering\/thursday#Thursday_Bert_Jan_Schrijver\">Software architecture in a DevOps 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As a result, you\u2019re working as a team in small increments and try to deliver new features to production as soon and often as possible, and get as much feedback as you can along the way. When a team is moving at such a fast pace, continuously adding new features and refining existing ones, it can be difficult for a software architect to keep up.&#8221;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":201909754,"featured_media":14544,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1364],"tags":[],"post_folder":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v23.0 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Software Architecture in a DevOps World \u2013 An Interview with Bert Jan Schrijver | SAG Digital Blog<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"For a DevOps team, one of the main goals is to provide continuous delivery of value for end users. 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